Comments on: King Solomon, he never lived round here

By: Joe

Joe — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:02:03 +0000

I admit that I fell completely into the “vaccines are dangerous” pool. Even now, after having read that story, and many others like it, I’m still apprehensive about them. Before Tyler was born, we decided to use a modified vaccination schedule. I didn’t think they were completely dangerous, but I was concerned about how many and how often (and I was terrified of the MMR). Instead, we’re starting vaccines when Tyler turns two, and we’re taking them at a slower pace. So, he will get all his vaccinations, but not as soon as everyone else.

Good post.
Joe´s last blog ..A smattering of videos

By: admin

admin — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:47:20 +0000

RB – They do have a chicken pox vaccine now. At least in Australia.

By: Reluctant Blogger

Reluctant Blogger — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:34:58 +0000

I did get my children vaccinated but I would not now choose the MMR. I know it is convenient and it is the ONLY way to ensure that everyone gets done. But I feel I am responsible enough as a parent to ensure I do take my children back again and again for the separate jabs. I strongly believe that should be an easily available option for those who want it. There should be a choice is all I am saying – for those who want the convenience of one jab and those who think it overloads the system. There is no harm in offering a choice.

My eldest son did have the MMR and had an adverse reaction (not autism – just an immediate allergic type reaction) that hospitalised him and made him unable to walk for a few days. It is possible it was a virus unrelated to the jab but the doctors did not think so and neither did I – he was yellow carded as a side effect of the jab. I didn’t take the chance with my other children and gave them the separate measles jab.

I wish they vaccinated against chicken pox – that is a very nasty virus. My nephew has a problem with his eye as a direct result of that virus as do I. But if they do introduce it they will probably lump it together with loads of others – sigh!

By: admin

admin — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:21:16 +0000

SeattleDad – I doubt that, but it feels good to write it at least.

SSG – Yeah, it’s a shame that people don’t get all excited about headlines that say “Vaccine works as expected. Measles eliminated”.

NATUI – The thing about HepB is that if you happen to pick it up, you’ve got it (in most cases) forever. So, yeah I think it is a very good think to give them the jab at birth. As for the increase in vaccinations – it’s because when we were kids vaccinations for a lot of things hadn’t been developed. Our kids are going to be healthier – assuming that we get them vaccinated – than we were. That’s what I want for my kids, for them to be healthier and happier than I was.

Andrea – That ‘trigger’ thing is the kind of thing that worries me a bit. The Jenny McCarthy crew read something like that and say “AHA! It’s true! Panic! Panic!”. I’d love to see the primary literature. If you know where to find it could you let me know?

Muskrat – Yeah, because I have a lot of good things to say about Big Pharma.

April – You’ve made an incredibly good point and one that hadn’t occurred to me. Every instance of vaccination elicits an immune response. So every single shot that they get is a physiologically stressful event. So, in an ideal world, we would give them every vaccine at once. That obviously isn’t doable but maybe it is less doctor laziness and more compassion for the wee’uns delicate systems that we do multiple shots at once. Thanks for that, April. Made me think.

NS – Whatever their motivation, it is a selfish act. I’m sure that most of them are working with the information that they have – it would be interesting to find out the newspaper preference of UK parents who didn’t get their kids vaccinated. My guess? Daily Mail at the top.

That said, I have more contempt for the media than I do for the parents or even Wakefield himself. If they don’t sell this bullshit, it is not an issue. But in that endless quest for the sexiest story, due diligence is left behind.

By: Noble Savage

Noble Savage — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:18:46 +0000

I don’t think that people who don’t vaccinate are necessarily stupid or selfish — I think they’re scared and, most importantly, distrustful. They don’t trust the medical community and pharmaceutical companies because of the dodgy things they’ve done in the past and the way modern medicine has become very much cost and outcome-focused without taking individual people and their concerns and wishes into consideration. For all of the evidence-based, sound medicine practised, there are questionable studies and alliances and policies that completely ignore patient rights and best practise guidelines. Dr. Wakefield didn’t create that climate of fear and anger, he just capitalised on it.

So while I have chosen to vaccinate my children and think everyone should, I find myself more sad for than angry at those who don’t. Sure, some of them are just ignorant or pig-headed or blindly believing one source without checking others, but most of them have their children’s best interests at heart. Judging them and telling them they’re horrible parents isn’t really helping, in my opinion. When people have an irrational fear, they need to feel safe enough and respected enough in their choices to start to question them and confront the evidence (or lack thereof) that led them to make that decision.
Noble Savage´s last blog ..Ahhh. We needed that.

By: April

April — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:07:05 +0000

We’ve been getting vaccinated on schedule, there are a couple things to consider about vaccinations and grouping them that sort of swayed me. First, each time a child gets a shot, it causes a release of stress hormones and inflammation, but you don’t really get more if you get multiple shots at one time, whereas if you spread the shots out you end up with more stress hormone and inflammation in total. As these things are known not to be good for anyone, especially not the stress hormone, this seemed like a good argument for multiple vaccinations. The other argument that I found convincing was that the amount of antigen that a child is exposed to in the vaccines (even multiples) is no more than they are exposed to in their normal environment on a normal day.
My main problem with the current vaccination schedule is the logic behind it, ie except for cost efficiency and nurse time required, I can’t figure out that there is any. Perhaps pediatricians need to do a better job of educating us parents as to why things are done this way other than we want to get them covered by as many vaccinations as possible as quickly as possible to protect them. Do all these early boosters really help? I know it would be hard, but I really think some studies need to be done showing the effectiveness of these schedules vs a more delayed schedule. For good reason, our day-care will not admit children who are not fully vaccinated. Some of the other kids have really young siblings so they could be reservoirs even if vaccinated themselves. It’s hard as a parent because you feel it’s your job to protect your child and if that means others may be hurt, sometimes you may feel its justified, greater-good be damned. If you’re going to take that stance, you need to be absolutely sure you’re right, and for vaccinations, the science isn’t there, and you’re putting your child at great risk, as well as the community.
As for herd immunity, like AFM mentioned, even the vaccinated are vulnerable when an outbreak occurs. Case in point, a 1000+ outbreak in NY and NJ recently, 77% of those who came down with mumps were vaccinated, still that means far too many were not, so it spread and luckily they were teenagers, not infants.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/08/mumps.outbreak.northeast/index.html?hpt=T2
April´s last blog ..Finicky Eating

By: muskrat

muskrat — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:27:05 +0000

Did the pharmacy companies pay you to write this? Like SciFi Dad, we stagger the shots more than is typical but otherwise let the babies get vaccinated. I read somewhere that getting measles sucks.
muskrat´s last blog ..choosing teams

By: Andrea

Andrea — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:54:29 +0000

I read a comment from someone over in infectious diseases here at the U of S that was interesting. Basically she said they think an immune challenge at just the wrong time does have something to do with triggering the onset of autism. Key word being trigger not cause. And the 12 mo shots are “responsible” in the same way that the common cold or a flu infection would also be responsible if it happened at the critical time, which it inevitably would. Interesting…

“I do think that the medical practicioners can be a bit vax happy. Or lazy.” I think that the reason why vaccines are stacked so high is economics and realism. Trying to get an appointment here for the shots is frustrating – we’re going to be done with the schedule for 6 mo (the last half of the seasonal flu) this Wednesday, 6 days prior to her 8 mo B-day. They don’t have the nurses and the resources to carry out the individual shots on a modified schedule for everyone. Plus I think that they hope parents will agree with getting everything included in a particular shot series because it is expected of them. If I had a nickel for all the moms I have heard say “Well I wasn’t going to get shot X, but when I got there it was too late.”

You’d also be proud of me. I have commented in public that I wished there were more vaccines available that I could opt in for. Because it seems like everytime they get vaccinated, my kids seem to pass some milestone. 6 mo shots and kids started solid foods! 12 mo shots, R was crawling! Only a few people seemed offended/shocked, most seemed to greatly enjoy. So there’s hope for the masses yet…

By: Not Afraid To Use It

Not Afraid To Use It — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:24:23 +0000

I’m with SciFi Dad in that we are on an altered/delayed schedule. Our son will be getting his first HepB jab next week at his sister’s check-up. We’ll be catching up his schedule up in the next year and a half before he starts kindergarten. I still find absolutely no validity in giving the HepB to an infant less than 24 hours old. When my mom didn’t understand why we weren’t going full force ahead “on schedule” I showed her a chart of the recommended vaxs from the year I was born (1974) and the year my daughter was born (2005). She was shocked at not only the increase in number but how many at the same time. Now that my son is 3.5, we are much more comfortable with his body handling some of the multiple disease shots.
Not Afraid To Use It´s last blog ..Parental Fork In the Road

By: ssg

ssg — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:14:37 +0000

i wish people that read this blog weren’t already open to such facts… I wish non-vaccinaters read this blog and then changed their minds. I wish there was the same hysteria over, shock, vaccine works and doesnt cause autism, rather than the opposite.
ssg´s last blog ..hello again